Current Debate

Gas News Forum: OLD OIL FORUM: Part P [OFT 103]: Current Debate
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gamble (Editor2) on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 05:54 pm: Edit Post

An informative link for the requirements of Part P Electrical Safety.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Roberts (Trevor49) on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 09:27 am: Edit Post

Part P is so simple

If the works come under the control of Part P

Get a sparky in, Voila

Is that too simple ?

I don't think so, Don't feed the beast and it will die. That is, don't help to create a demand at the training centres.

Two of the lads at our company were recently sent on the course, they came back clueless and complained that even the training centre declaired that Part P is just a political nightmare. At a cost of 2000 the company will not be sending anyone else.

Comments anyone !

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Administrator (Admin) on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 09:36 am: Edit Post

Don't feed the beast and it will die.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Nesbitt (John11668) on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 06:32 pm: Edit Post

Why restrict this to part P.
Why not also starve it of the revenues from OFT 101,102,105,600 and the national registration fees as well. Posession of these tickets does not in itself indicate a good engineer, and the publicity which Oftec gives to the holders implies skills which most have not yet reached.
I was asked recently by a registered holder of OFT102 to look at an appliance which was beyond him.
I (being between registrations as it were) do not appear on Oftecs "find an installer near you"
The lady had a list which included firms from Angus to Cheltenham but no single local firm on the list would have had any experience of the particular appliance and problem.
Gone are the days when the customer asked their fuel supplier to advise them. They were always able to advise sensibly because they got feedback from the customer.
It may have been "What a great guy"
Conversely "that was a useless beggar you sent me" was etched indelibly in the reps mind.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gamble (Editor2) on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:35 am: Edit Post

Nice to hear from you Trevor, long time no see, welcome to this hopefully forum of excellence or as someone said to me 'hot bed of sedition.'
Talking of which I spent yesterday at the Henley Show (that's Henley on Thames, not in Arden). The usual country show stuff plus a stirring musical ride by the Household Cavalry climaxing with an impressive full gallop by riders carrying the flag of my Nation - the Union flag and the individual flags of the countries making up the Untied Kingdom, correction United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
A speech by the Show Chairman extolled the centuries old right to hunt which they will continue to do within the current law until the law is ultimately repealed.
Didn't see Boris (Johnson)there but got talking to a CORGI registered installer over a pint in the beer tent as you do. I did a grey commissioning for him a few weeks ago, that's an oil boiler commissioning masquerading as a manufacturer's warrantee call.
He has now put one of his gas guys through the 101, 105E, 600A package and admits that they are having problems as quote "oil is not really their thing." Anyway he's now got my card now and will be in touch. His official line is that they employ an electrical sub contractor for Part P work but he admits some of the smallest jobs are uneconomic for the subby, so they carry on as before, doing it themselves working to BS 7671 but above all safely.
His subby had an inspection and got picked up on labelling - No label indicating that the installation contained the new harmonised and the old non harmonised wiring colours.
To which he said "Must be the rubbish self adhesive labels, would you believe it fell off and got swept up?"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Roberts (Trevor49) on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 03:51 pm: Edit Post

Aaah, well that could be the catalyst for a new OFT course OFT10 The Application of Indication Labels pertaining to OFT103. Must have at least 5 years industry experience in the application of sticky labels or hold a HGV licence :o)

Sedition !. Ooh No, More a collection of like minded folk who are prepared to tell it as it is, nothing wrong with that, (don't worry, I've mellowed quite a bit since the Association of Oil Fired Heating Engineers) and besides, I like this forum.

Hi Richard, glad to see you still making such a valuable contribution to the oil heating industry without charge (more than can be said for some). I really don't know how you find the time but I for one am glad that you can.

As for Boris, I expect he will be thrown to the lions again as was the case in Liverpool but not being content with just upsetting cities, he has moved on to bigger game, upsetting nations.
I think he must enjoy upsetting folk but give him his due, he at least tells it as it is. No diplomatic skills whatsoever. (Yep, the same mold I'm afraid) LOL.

And yes, a very apt slip of the pen, Untied Kingdom. Untied by both the reds and blues from Maggie onwards. A once strong and proud nation paid for through two wars by millions of lives now handed on a plate by Euro-pratts to the influx of... well, need I say more ?

After a very shaky start to the year I have decided to take a few steps back into what I really enjoy, servicing and repairing oil kit in full time employment. No invoicing, 40 hours a week, no overtime, no SA100, no PL, no vans to maintain, no Oftec registration fees and simply left alone to get on with it. And all that in what is arguably the most chilled out county in the "Untied Kingdom", Devon of course. (right on Clive's doorstep hahaa!)
Anyway, that's where I'm heading in about an hour so I will catch up on here next weekend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Nesbitt (John11668) on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 11:34 pm: Edit Post

I hear that Boris is to visit Carlisle to make amends for his comments in the observer following an enforced stopover in our great metropolis. This time he is coming at the invitation of our Mayor rather than being sent by his leader.
In the same paper I read that the proposed 300mph maglev trains may well Bypass carlisle too.
When I was a teenager this mode of transport was being developed and advocated by Professor Eric Laithwaite who featured regularly on the black and white magic box. A regular sunday science programme I thoroughly enjoyed. It must now be at least 45 years since the days of the invention and we brits (on the ball as usual) are now considering using it.

A final thought is that the trains and track will cost between 11 and 26 billion. If I did my quotes with a similar degree of precision I could be either very rich or very poor, I am not sure which.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gamble (Editor2) on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 02:28 am: Edit Post

Viewpoint, in the September 2006 issue of the free trade counter magazine Professional Electrician reads:-

"Just when it looked like the Home Information Pack (HIP)would be the saviour for Part P the Government has announced they will not be compulsory. In case you've had your head buried in the sand, Part P registered electricians have been putting their hopes in the Home Information Pack as a kick start to proper testing and certification of domestic installations and more return on their investment.
The Part P scheme providers were hoping that the HIP would give the Regulations the teeth they need so that more of the trade sign up to become registered installers......".

Other extracts from this page long article are:-
"Unfortunately, with most things the Government touches these days, it turns quickly into a bureaucratic nightmare both for the individuals and the wider market as a whole. The only possible winners would seem to be the companies who have sprung up to produce the packs for sellers and, of course, the Chancellor, who will pocket millions in VAT. Hopefully somewhere down the line, Part P electricians may profit too".

The editorial continues and ends "With the Conservatives already promising to scrap HIP's if elected, it looks like another inspired policy decision which may come home to roost for the Government. We believe that Part P registered electricians should stop putting faith in this pack now. If it happens, it will be a bonus, but with stormy political times ahead, the HIPwould be nothing more than an expensive BLIP.

Richard Pagett,Editor - Professional Electrician".

The star letter in the magazine by qualified electrician Paul Kirk of Orpington, is in line with my thinking on Part P for non electricians - a little knowlege is a dangerous thing.
He concludes "I am an electrician and have agonised over what I consider a loss of status and question the relevance of vocational training
and qualifications when trades have become debased by illconcieved legislation".

Other letters refer to the grey areas in BS7671 and the poor craftmanship by the unskilled, newly qualified to Part P, who are extending their electrical activities into areas where they are not competent .

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gamble (Editor2) on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 01:04 am: Edit Post

From my experience the objective of Part P to raise the electrical safety standard of existing electrical installations seems to be bypassed.

I see more and more electrical contractors fitting a second dedicated consumer unit to serve the new extension or new kitchen conversion.
That way they test and certificate their own new work without incurring the liability of the existing electrical installation.

I asked one NICEIC registered electrician why he didn't extend the existing ring mains or run new ones as there were still spare ways in the existing consumer unit.
He said that he was in business and touching that can of worms, when he did not have to, was bad business.

Another instance where we fitted a new oil fired condensing boiler into a new extension.
Extending the flow and return pipework from the existing heating system.
The electrical contractor provided us with a switch fused spur from his new consumer unit serving the extension.
At a site meeting with the builder I told the electrician that we required a switched live and permanent live fed from the Honeywell heating controls junction box in the airing cupboard in order to comply with Building Regulations Part L and a 3 pole isolator at the boiler.

The heating controls were part of the existing buildings older electrical installation. The electrician was not a happy bunny as he had not priced to test and certificate the existing building. To get over this he ran a new supply from his consumer unit (the supply he had originally put to our new boiler) back up to the airing cupboard to power the Honeywell heating controls and disconnected the supply to the heating controls from the existing electrical installation. He then ran a new 1.5mm, 3 core and earth from the Honeywell junction box back down to our new boiler position. The ends were left dangling for us to connect as he did not do heating controls, only their supplies.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Administrator (Admin) on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 06:13 am: Edit Post

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

As Im selling my gaff I decided to get an electrical inspection cert and phoned NICEIC. They pointed to a list of names. I telephoned three.

The first one I left a message on answerphone and did not hear any more.

The second one made a specific appointment but never seen or heard from since.

The third one delivered a a mouthful of abuse before hanging up. Hed decided that I simply wanted a list of defects (if any) so I could do the work and .

Not true as the whole point of the exercise was to obtain a certifcate and they could not do that with out correcting faults (if any), testing and being satisfied.

I am not arsed anyway, it was just an idea. And Ive fitted new sockets in the kitchen so if anyone in the DCLG wants to have a word my details are in contacts, but they are advised to phone rather than visit, in case the door handles are live by accident (metal boyo).