Archive 01

Gas News Forum: OLD GAS FORUM: Main discussion area: LPG Forum: Archive 01
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 09:11 pm: Edit Post

Les kindly created this section at my request so I'll start off....

It's a question that's often crossed my mind. I expect a call to CORGI would clear it up but it's Friday night and they've all gone home I expect.

I've done my LPG changeover course but one important subject wasn't addressed at all (unless I was dozing); IUP. Let's assume an ID situation is identified. The LPG user says "no, get lost, no you can't disconnect".

Now what?

Cheers, Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 09:17 pm: Edit Post

If it was natural gas you would summon Transco and get them to sign your bit of paper, so extrapolate on that.

The gas transporter I believe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Begley (Atbegley) on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 09:34 pm: Edit Post

I would confirm what Les has said same as NG you inform the gas supplier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:42 am: Edit Post

So lets assume it's propane bottles, Calor Gas brand, refills purchased from the hardware shop up the road. Who IS the gas supplier and what action are they empowered to take?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 08:10 am: Edit Post

Given the alleged importance of IUP, which claim is on my long list to investigate in 2006, I would have thought this subject should have been first on the changeover agenda.

Knowing you, I doubt you dozed off, like a judge famously did in a court case last year [allegedly].

The first priority has to be gas safety. In the absence of certain knowledge over the weekend, if anything potentially unsafe occurred I’d delegate and dial 999: Then on Monday call Basingstoke.

Any dithering or reticence let me know as I’m researching related issues following information received.

The HSE seem to have a family of related safety publications and one quickly sourced [http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/chis4.pdf] refers also to others.

With natural gas the transporter of gas has that responsibility. With bulk storage [fixed installations] I suspect it will be the gas supplier in any particular instance. That would seem to be logical and I would be surprised if a statutory notice is not required in a prominent place on or around any installation.

If the gas safety training you received is sloppy for any reason and did not cover IUP then I would suggest that needs to be investigated. Pick up the thread and follow it back to the ultimate source, the HSE. Without facts we can’t point a finger at anyone yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 09:27 am: Edit Post

Just to clarify, my questions are entirely hypothetical. The IS no ID situation that needs dealing with. I'm asking because sooner or later, there will be, and I need to be competent to handle it and not asking these questions in the heat of the moment (no pun intended).

Regarding bulk storage, the situation must be different from portable gas bottles. And again, fixed household installtions must be different from mobile caravans, motorhomes and rivercraft. Sea-going boats different again. Sooooooo many questions still to come!

I'll get my course notes out later when I have time...

Cheers, Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 09:36 am: Edit Post

I've since read the HSE notes referred to above and it seems to broadly support my assertions which I suppose are obvious.

We are required by law to [RIDDOR] report certain scenarios [IUP] and obviously you will want to know, as I would, what that entails.

It should not of course be necessary, having done a course that you paid a lot of money for, to have to pay Corgi or anyone else for the necessary information.

Please keep us informed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bernie beaumont (Bernie) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 09:53 am: Edit Post

Good question Mike. And despite having an LPG ACS I don't think there is a pat answer. My suspicion is the the term 'gas supplier' was left vague but without thinking it through.

Having called Callor Gas emergency number (08457 444 999) it seems the situation resolves into two parts. If the instalation is a bulk tank there will be customer records and so 'gas supplier' CAN be found. If the instalation is transportable bottles - as Mike posed - finding out who the gas supplier may NOT be possible. Therefore effectivly NO gas supplier.

In an ID situation a RIDDOR to HSE may be a good as you can get. Perhaps phone calls to other agencys too, possibly a registered letter to confirm your conversation.

Just stepping back from the question a moment I can say this sitation has never occured with me regarding LPG. Has this occured to Mike? Or is this just a discussion ?

If it was to, then clearly it would require some thought, but the action then taken would be situation specific.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Glazier (Agile) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:21 am: Edit Post

I dont see a problem!

This was brought up during an ACS refresher for NG but the tutor was happy to cover it as he felt that all in the gas industry should know what to do in an unsafe situation.

He said that the regulations apply equally to LPG as to NG and the gas supplier should be informed in the same way. Although the supplier cannot always be identified he suggested that informing Calor was the best solution if the actual supplier cannot be confirmed as they have a large proportion of the market.

Tony Glazier


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Browning (Mrbanks) on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:48 pm: Edit Post

How about phoning Transco anyway.

I recently went to a job where the householder had called Transco to a faulty boiler, they duly attended and made safe the OIL boiler in the kitchen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 12:44 pm: Edit Post

The transco bods probably didn't realise it was an oil boiler, hahaha! Not that I'm cynical of course :-) I'm sure they know their jobs as well as we do!

Cheers, Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 12:56 pm: Edit Post

Actually I once turned one off or at least I tried to. The plethora of apparent controls did not work and the boiler was wired directly to the mains and the stat had failed. Traced the wire and pulled the plug then got them an OFTEC.

When we ran a 24/7 service years ago, got called out by police one night. Empty factory and the boilers inexplicably fired up. Bit like a Ridley Scott movie (Aliens). It did not help that the police [woman's] name was claimed to be Inspector Regan. All turned out to be kosher: Oil shut off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 11:12 am: Edit Post

Leisure boats:

I was reading the GSIUR the other day and it looks to me as though their scope does not extend to privately owned rivercraft used as pleasure boats. See Part A, 2. (5) (c). If that is the case, then do LPG installations on boats still have to be done by RGIs? If not, why does the industry seem to think CORGI bods need to be employed to fit the gas on boats?

Any comments anyone?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Glazier (Agile) on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 11:17 am: Edit Post

I dont understand!

Whilst I have not read the reference, it is well known that LPG on boats is particularly dangerous.

I would be very surprised if there was any situation that allowed fixed installations in any boat to be fitted by non CORGI rgistered persons.

Interestingly, the Inland Waterways Boat Inspectors think that they can inspect and test the LPG installations apparently without being CORGI registered.

Tony Glazier


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 11:31 am: Edit Post

I would be very surprised if there was any situation that allowed fixed installations in any boat to be fitted by non CORGI rgistered persons.

Agreed, and hence my question Tony!

If you look up the ref it says (to paraphrase) nothing in these regs shall apply to a vessel not requiring a national or international load line certificate unless it is used as a houseboat. Small pleasure boats don't require load line certificates, therefore seem out of scope of the GSIUR.

Maybe the Boat Safety Scheme replaces the GSIUR for pleasure craft. Surely not!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 11:44 am: Edit Post

I don’t have a clue about LPG but my [proposed] last sentence is my get-out-of-jail-free card.

This could be one of those wonderful anomalies, which in this case hinges on the word leisure. To be more precise, said boat it is not used as a home.

As you all may know, a ‘temporary’ bedroom in a house is not treated in the same way as a bedroom that is not temporary, for gas safety purposes. The most obvious example of a temporary bedroom is a room used by someone with a disability, denied access to a regular bedroom.

As the rules are designed primarily to protect those who create the rules, they offer no advice on what constitutes a temporary bedroom.

I believe that in the interests of gas safety, student accommodation with separate bedrooms should still anticipate lounges being used as bedrooms from time to time, as there is a high probability of such use.

My LPG two-ring burner for use out of doors may be another anomaly. Can I repair the burner or not ?

I once attended an insurance company emergency. A guy owned a cheap and nasty blow-lamp which he had repaired at a local DIY. He returned home to his single storey outhouse on his semi and lit the nearly-empty disposable cylinder lamp. It burst into flames and he legged it just before the thing blew up and sent the side wall crashing down on his van.

Water Regulations don’t apply if you have your own water supply from whatever source [disposal a different matter]. That is why shelves of the sheds are filled with stuff that is not approved.

Your leisure boat could simply be another example of a portable toy like the two-ring burner and the blow-lamp.

No doubt there will be some maritime rules as well as other health and safety [net] legislation. Worst scenario of course is the Police if a sudden death occurs.

You have to wonder if they were ‘forced’ to exclude such boats or whether it was done to ingratiate themselves to the voters.

Best ask Corgi and see if you can get a straight answer. A written straight answer would be an added bonus and might even become a collectors’ item.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Jennison (Navena_h__v_ltd) on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 04:56 pm: Edit Post

Mike, to answer your original question, We work/Live at the seaside & consequently get lots a "mobile Homes" & semi resi homes to deal with, here's what we do.............


If "Shut off & Label" is necessary then we carry a blank disc (To fit into the bottle) along with a lead seal & wire....fit em seal em label em & photograph it for our records..........if anything goes belly up after that........we're bullet proof!!!!! if possible we also get a witness to sign the back of the photo !!!!