Current Debate

Gas News Forum: OLD GAS FORUM: Consumers: Current Debate
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul (Swagger) on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:57 pm: Edit Post

My mother just recieved a grant to fit a new hot blown air boiler (johnson and starley), and at the same time the flue had to be mended, she recieved a grant of £2700 towards this work , but had to add £500 of her own money, surely the boiler and flue doesnt come to that much money, i know the boiler deliverd is £1032 as i rang johnson and starley, but i cant work out how much the flue would be, i reckon she needed around 7 metres, so if i said the flue was £500, and boiler was £1032, the sum doesnt add up, what do i do


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Glazier (Agile) on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 01:07 pm: Edit Post

This forum is primarily for gas engineers to discuss industry matters.

You seem to have forgotten that the price quoted to your mother includes installation and VAT. The installation costs by CORGI registered installers are often more than the cost of the boiler and parts.

The flue is probably not at all simple to replace and the old one may contain asbestos.

Tony


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bryant (Mike) on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:40 pm: Edit Post

I would suggest that as you don't understand where the money is going, the CORGI bod providing the quote has done a poor job of explaining.

He appears to be charging £1191.40 plus VAT for the installation of the unit and the flue, including sundry materials. Sounds pretty cheap to me.

Cheers, Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Douglas Niven (Doug52) on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 09:39 pm: Edit Post

Help please.
Desperately seeking a reputable plumber to upgrade an old hot air system to a more efficient unit (Johnson Starley?) The system is more than 30 years old but the heating unit has been replaced once in that time.

Would have to be in Central Scotland.
Customer is an old lady who could not stand the disruption of fitting a radiator system.

Can anyone help

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Krystyn Webb (Gigi) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:50 am: Edit Post

Help!! - Whatever happened to training on the plain and simple gas fire? We have 2 gas fires installed in the early '90's each with 3 radiants but unfortunately no MI's. They were installed by BG; maintained by a "Corgi" who has retired and gone abroad. We want to let while we are away and the Corgi "bod" we asked for a LSC threw up his hands in horror and said they were too old to smoke/ flue/ CO test. Basic physics and chemistry suggest to us that surely this cannot be right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 07:03 pm: Edit Post

As you assert, anything can be tested but unless familiar with the particular appliances, many would want the MI's. It could be a case that the bod you called does not want to get involved with gas fires or has spotted something that may lead to a little bad news.

Suggest you try another CORGI from the CORGI database online at: www.trustcorgi.co.uk


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Geoff Williams (Geoff_williams) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:03 pm: Edit Post

The "plain and simple" gas fires are often the most dangerous. If they are 15 years old they are likely to have no safety features and in poor condition. The safety standards and quality of many fires manufactured today is woefully low, let alone 15 years ago. If there is central heating they are best disconnected.

I disconnect 95% of gas fires I come across in rented property. The majority are never installed properly, and never serviced. Remember who's signing off the installation as safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry Parker (Phonemonkey) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 02:21 pm: Edit Post

In the British Gas HomeCare 100-400 features and benefits blurb it says 'Access to CORGI engineers trained to level 15 (the highest attainable) - can anyone tell me what that means? What's the lowest level of training a CORGI engineer can be trained to and still be able to deal with central heating?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 08:00 pm: Edit Post

Multi-level certification exists in gas work which is handy as each level (module would be far more appropriate) costs money. If the words used are as you describe I would suggest that is slightly misleading.

All registered gas installers have to do CCN1 which is core-gas-safety. They must take at least one module which could be meters (Met1).

Essentially the modules relate to types of appliances or work. For example there are separate modules for:

Gas cookers and hobs
Gas fires
Water heaters
Boilers
Leisure (your bar-b-q point outside)
Warm air heating
Gas tumble driers

Because each module costs money to renew every five years many gas installers just register for CCN1 plus (say) boilers. Such installers cannot work out-of-scope on other modules.

Details of what each operative can work on is listed on the back of the ID registration card.

Installers registered just for Natural Gas cannot work on LPG appliances. They are also separate modules.

It makes sense for BG to put their installers through all modules for obvious reasons.

'The Highest Attainable' suggests they get better as they go through levels. That is not appropriate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Geoff Williams (Geoff_williams) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 01:49 am: Edit Post

Just remember, the consensus of opinion (from the competent BG engineers that post on gas industry forums), is the sad fact that only 10% of their workforce are truly competent in boiler repairs. Any many of us non BG boiler repair engineers tend to agree!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry Parker (Phonemonkey) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 12:15 pm: Edit Post

Thanks guys, that's clarified it for me. I have to advise customers about the Homecare Range and what the benefits are - if someone asks me what something means, I want be able to give an honest answer. It looks like (I hope) if they send guys out to a job and it's beyond their competence, they get someone in who's capable/qualified. I've heard our engineers before say that generally the standard's gone down - that's 'progress' for you. Again thanks for your advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 12:40 pm: Edit Post

I am not suggesting their standards (your own BG engineers) have gone down as that would be to disparage unfairly without putting everything into context, which I will do later. I will be suggesting otherwise.

I've just stopped for a brew but otherwise busy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 07:42 pm: Edit Post

Once upon a time boilers, regardless of make, were essentially the same, easy to diagnose and service. That has now changed. Boilers (and indeed systems) are far far more complex than of old. A quick look at www.boilers.org.uk will show you the hundreds of different boilers currently being produced. There are of course hundreds more no longer being produced that are essentially modern.

I am registered for boilers (etc) but know my limitations of competence. I could not hold a candle to some who post here on the subject of diagnostics. Not because my standards are low but because my focus and expertise is elsewhere. Competence arises from training AND experience related to the boilers trained on, or any other subject.

People in offices seem to be on endless training course but the same ethic does not seem to extend to operatives working on gas and plumbing. The untrained managers just see a white-cabinet (boiler) and assume their staff can fix anything.

BG operatives have both in-house and external audits every year in an effort to maintain standards. Yes they still have ‘incidents’ and those should be fully investigated right down the line AND up the line.

I recall in one court case (not BG) where the judge ordered a company to scrap an incentive scheme as that was impacting on standards. I have worked in situations (audits) where targets set for operatives were totally unrealistic (construction not gas), the targets being set by technically illiterate people.

Given BG staff focus on gas I see little point in them repeating ACS every five years. That time needs to be devoted to new boilers and systems they may be called upon to service etc. ACS (repeat) is also largely a waste of time for many others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry Parker (Phonemonkey) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:54 am: Edit Post

Thanks Les, this is so useful and actually fascinating (i need to get out more) but can you just tell me what is ACS?

Harry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 09:52 am: Edit Post

ACS is the 'Approved Certification Scheme', one of hundreds of measures impacting across the whole spectrum of commerce in all areas of work, to help raise cash for a profligate and discredited government.

Our bricky tried to get work fitting loft insulation to help keep money flowing into his coffers. He discovered he had not got a 'certificate' that was being asked for.

Time we had a revolt against the scourge of commercial parasites.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Clarke (Dunnock) on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 05:00 pm: Edit Post

Hello everybody! I am going round in circles with internet searches looking for a single-point gas water heater for use in the kitchen. I do find the odd link but these very soon lead into links to electric heaters. Is the single-point gas water heater out of favour these days or is the economics of usage in favour of electrical heaters?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 05:08 pm: Edit Post

Single-point always = flueless and that last word is not popular with many registered gas installers around here, particularly pertaining to gas fires.

With a good leccy one you can brew up as well and that can't be bad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Clarke (Dunnock) on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 08:32 am: Edit Post

Thanks Les. I guess I am of the generation that sees electrical heating = cheap to install but expensive to use - so I've always used gas whenever possible (though obviously the balance has shifted since we started importing expensive gas from abroad!).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 08:40 am: Edit Post

The expensive gas we import from abroad is first sold to those abroad at a cheap price in warmer weather, according to a University Professor acquaintance.

At least you should be safe from carbon-monoxide and that is more important.

Ye olde single-point gas heaters should carry a label indicating a limited period of continuous use (5 minutes).

Past accidents have included people trying to DIY convert them into multi-point heaters using pipes and hoses.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Bray (David_bray) on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 09:51 am: Edit Post

22mm compression fittings - standard or not?

I bought a Horstmann 2 port 22mm motorised valve from Screwfix a few days ago. Getting it out of the box I thought the 22mm thread pitch on the new valve looked finer than 'normal' compression fittings. I checked the box and the label on the valve body and they both said 22mm.
The existing 22mm nuts turned out to be very loose on the Horstmann valve male 22mm threaded stubs so I didn't even try to make them fit. A piece of 22mm copper tube seemed to fit OK in 22mm threaded stubs and the Horstmann supplied 22mm olives fitted OK on the tube.
Also the supplied nuts on the Horstmann valve were too small for a 'normal' 22mm compression and would not even start.
On taking the valve back to Screwfix the Screwfix branch manager told me that European 22mm fittings were different in that UK 22mm threads were BSP threads. I didn't accept this and I got a replacement Drayton which fitted OK.
So is 22mm a standard or do we now have to check everything we buy for compatability??
Cheers
Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gradwell (Editor) on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 04:24 pm: Edit Post

As I recall standard compression fittings have never fitted motorised valves, being too coarse like me.

But the thread used on motorised valves has always generally been portable. That may not have applied to the old Landis and Gyr valves for which you could get repair kits.

Long time since I changed one but I used to change hundreds, mainly substituting Honeywell for Drayton, Potty and others. Extra earth required though.

They used to blow like popcorn on new-build because they were always in the airing cupboard and 'er-indoors used to smother them with airing laundry, thus they would exceed their critical maximum safe temperature (ditto pumps).